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Director of Operations
By JeBuS (Brian S)
 - Director of Operations
 -  
#595929
abargar7510 wrote:Other than season 1 (which is an all-time level missed opportunity), you're not missing anything unless you like hugging, crying, and, cheering (usually all at the same time) ostensibly right in the middle of a quasi-military professional environment.
This is my main beef with the show. The crew members don't do their jobs until everyone feels good about themselves. Drahhhma comes first. Storytelling second.

Can you imagine a US or Royal Navy ship operating like this?

I watch the show, but damn if it isn't grating.
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Director of Operations
 - Director of Operations
 -  
#595930
Well, I *loved* The Orville, so...

*shrug*
Orville is way better.
JeBuS wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:59 pm
abargar7510 wrote:Other than season 1 (which is an all-time level missed opportunity), you're not missing anything unless you like hugging, crying, and, cheering (usually all at the same time) ostensibly right in the middle of a quasi-military professional environment.
This is my main beef with the show. The crew members don't do their jobs until everyone feels good about themselves. Drahhhma comes first. Storytelling second.

Can you imagine a US or Royal Navy ship operating like this?

I watch the show, but damn if it isn't grating.
Oh I forgot clapping.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#596014
The Guardian wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:58 pm
abargar7510 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:09 pm Orville is way better.
Meh.
Did you see season 3? If that's "meh" I don't know what to tell you.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#596025
Yes, Orville Season 3 is pretty good, and shows more improvement than you might expect over Orville Season 1 (though not as much improvement as, say, TNG itself). To put it in perspective:

All seasons, best to worst:
DS9-6
ENT-4
TOS-1
TNG-5
DS9-5
TNG-4
TOS-2
ENT-3
DS9-7
DS9-4
TNG-6
DS9-2
VOY-4
TNG-3
DS9-3
VOY-7
VOY-6
TNG-7
DS9-1
VOY-5
TNG-2
TOS-3
VOY-3
ORV-3
ENT-2
VOY-2
ENT-1
SNW-1
PRO-1
VOY-1
TNG-1
ORV-2
DIS-2
TAS-1+2
ORV-1
DIS-1
PIC-1
PIC-2

Did Not Watch:
DIS-3
DIS-4
PIC-3

Too Different To Rank (but quite good):
LD-1
LD-2
LD-3

:twocents:
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Second Edition Art Manager
By edgeofhearing (Lucas Thompson)
 - Second Edition Art Manager
 -  
Community Contributor
#596066
BCSWowbagger wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:31 pm All seasons, best to worst:
This is a fun exercise. While I disagree with specifics, I do see bigger picture stuff that I do agree with – like VOY 4-7 are all pretty clustered in terms of quality, in contrast with other series.

I'm not up for piecing out an exact list, but here's my tier-list:

Tier 0: TNG 5, DS9 6
Tier 1: TOS 1, TNG 3, 4, DS9 4, 5, 7
Tier 2: TOS 2, 3, TNG 6, 7, DS9 1, 2, 3, VOY 4, 5, 6, 7, ENT 4, LD 1, 2, PRO 1,
Tier 3: TNG 1, 2, VOY 1, 2, 3, ENT 3, DSC 2, 3 (DNF*)
Tier 4: ENT 1 (DNF), DSC 1, PIC 1, ORV** 1 (DNF)
F Tier: PIC 2 (DNF)

DNF = Did Not Finish
Haven't seen: LD 3, DSC 4, PIC 3, SNW 1, ENT 2, TAS 1, 2, ORV 2, 3
*I will fully admit that this is primarily the fault of PIC 2
**It seems silly to include this one, because it makes me want to include BSG-R*** and FIR and EXP and ME, most of which perform better.
***This one would be particularly interesting because it has an inverted tier arc compared to Trek series. BSG-R 1 is definitely tier 0 for me.

Edit: I'm having a very intense feeling of Deja Vu over this post, like you've posted your list before and I reacted to it specifically with a tier list before... but a search of the forums does not turn anything up.
Edit 2: It was Marvel movies.
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By Iron Prime (Dan Van Kampen)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
Moderator
#596075
Armus wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:51 pmI've seen zero episodes of any Disco season so I make no judgments.
Its like you don't know how the internet works at all... :P
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#596081
edgeofhearing wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:00 am Listy stuff
It took me 20 minutes to realize that BSG was BattleStar Galactica. Which I have never watched more than a single episode of in a sitting and of which I remember only that they have a Starbucks and Cylons are Borg/Droid/Blade runner style not persons? And possibly the Battlestar is self is the last bastion of humanity/a battleship which became a colony/humanity 's last best hope? And there may be starfighters?

It didn't make the same impression as when I saw 2 episodes of Firefly/Veronica Mars/Space, Above and Beyond/the Tremors SciFi series spinoff and I was forever hooked.

I am still looking for Space, Above and Beyond at a price point I can afford when money is lying around.

Back to Disco, I enjoyed the seasons I have watched. I don't like how Paramount is pausing seasons in the middle to run a different one. For Money reasons. I enjoy all the Trek going right now, but I haven't seen SNW, Disco after Burn Resolution, Prodigy after the Admiral Janeway reveal, the last half of Picard 2 and all of PIC 3, or Lower Decks after the captain is arrested.

I suppose all the series could be waiting to let me down until I buy a Paramount membership again.

I don't think they are, however.
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#596082
edgeofhearing wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:00 am Edit: I'm having a very intense feeling of Deja Vu over this post, like you've posted your list before and I reacted to it specifically with a tier list before... but a search of the forums does not turn anything up.
Edit 2: It was Marvel movies.
I'm glad you found that, because I also got deja vu there, and this part of the forum is the one I'm terrible at searching.

Tier lists are better & more meaningful than straight rankings, but I find it easier to do a quick insertion sort than to break things out into tiers.

I think the difference between ORV and BSG is that ORV is conceived as a direct homage to Trek, sort of like Galaxy Quest (which is often listed in Star Trek movie rankings); whereas BSG-R was conceived explicitly as an anti-Trek, whose purpose was to take all the established Trek tropes, from storytelling to cinematography, turn them over, and see what fascinations are hiding under the rock. I guess RDM had a huge honking chip on his shoulder post-Voyager, but I'm grateful for it, since BSG did a lot to advance the art form even when I didn't like its stories (which was most of the time).

However, YMMV, and if someone snuck BSG onto a tier list, I could hardly call it "wrong."
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Second Edition Design Manager
By The Guardian (Richard New)
 - Second Edition Design Manager
 -  
2E North American Continental Quarter-Finalist 2023
#596493
BCSWowbagger wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:31 pm Yes, Orville Season 3 is pretty good, and shows more improvement than you might expect over Orville Season 1 (though not as much improvement as, say, TNG itself).
I tend to agree that it's an improvement, but those first three episodes of season 3 made me want to call it a day on the series as much as the first season did. I should mention that I didn't hate watch it; I wanted to believe the people that told me season 3 really found its footing. I also did the same thing for season 2 and for the same reason. I'm not sure I'll be fooled a third time. Still, the next three episodes were bangers, but it took me months to build up the effort to see for myself after the first three. And then they finish the season moving around the four pieces they have on their chessboard, which left me thinking how small their universe is. Improvement? Yes, but I do expect more from a show by its third season. Seems clear that this is the show they want to make. And it's not for me.

Hopefully without implying an attack, I don't get how a Star Trek fan can say that Orville is what they want. Am I being too critical? Maybe it's like Fry said in Futurama: "You know. Star Trek. Six movies. 69 episodes. About 30 good ones." Maybe just a few good episodes is worth it. (Though, I think Fry undersold it. And even the 40 or so not "good ones" try and have an interesting message. Maybe not the Halloween one...) SNW is ten episodes, about 7 good ones. Prodigy does about that. Lower Decks probably hits harder. It's hard to actually analyze for a serialized show with Disco or Picard, but if I looked at seasons, Disco is 2 for 4 and Picard is 0 for 2 right now. (Again, all my personal feelings and probably not the best metric.)

As for James's list, I'd put SNW-1, PRO-1, and DIS-1 much higher, but the rest seem reasonable. Sorry for rambling.
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