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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E The Neutral Zone Regional Participant 2024
#600203
How can Ferengi complete (or steal) espionage mission?

There are no Ferengi espionage cards.

Only way I see they can do it on their own is with Bribery. But this doesn’t work to steal it.

investigate warp signature works it seems. But you won’t seed that unless you are already seeding Earth

Otherwise, to steal, it seems you need to Mix Selok and there are no Ferengi treaties. So TMW her?

And I guess as an aside. If I download Selok with Undercover Agent, can I say as I’m downloading her I’m discarding TMW to make her compatible with all my Ferengi?
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By nobthehobbit (Daniel Pareja)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Moderator
#600205
Other than TMW for Selok I don't think there's a way for Ferengi to steal Espionage Mission. The intended way to do it is to use Bribery on the one you seeded yourself. The FCA requirement on the other side is there because there's not really a good reason for it not to be there. (You could, for instance, use Reflection Therapy with another affiliation to give personnel FCA, I believe, and solve that way.)
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#600209
I'm sorry, possibly I'm tired after a long day. (I'm still editing and posting rules docs.) Why doesn't Bribery work to steal?
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By The Ninja Scot (Michael Van Breemen)
 - North American OP Coordinator
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#600211
BCSWowbagger wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:52 am I'm sorry, possibly I'm tired after a long day. (I'm still editing and posting rules docs.) Why doesn't Bribery work to steal?
Bribery only works on your mission, not your opponents.

Michael
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
#600212
Ahhhh yes it does. My brain is fried. Thanks.
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#600214
Takket wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:19 pmAnd I guess as an aside. If I download Selok with Undercover Agent, can I say as I’m downloading her I’m discarding TMW to make her compatible with all my Ferengi?
I don't think this works because undercover provides a destination for the download and tmw requires the personnel to report to your ship.
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#600226
Y'all are looking at this the wrong way.

Download Brunt with Writ of Accountability via TMW to your ship of whatever affiliation.

Play Espionage: Whatever Affiliation on Federation on Espionage mission.

Attempt with Brunt and whoever you need to clear your self-seeded dilemmas.

Steal mission with Brunt's FCAx2.

Profit! [Rule] [Rule]
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#600440
Two ideas for not using Temporal Micro Wormhole, one of which is much better than the other:

1) use Gegis to be able mix a [Holo] personnel of another affliation into your [1E-Fer] away team. Could use Chief O'Brien and Plans of the Tal Shiar to download the Espionage on demand. He's even download able via Defend Homeworld so you can get him when you're ready, making it possibly more reliable than TMW, in some respects (though probably not overall).

He also has a special skill to download Brainwash, which brings me to my second idea....

2) Capture an opposing personnel, Brainwash them, and use the appropriate Espionage card to attempt the mission. Ideally, you capture specifically Selok, so you don't need the espionage card, but that might be rather difficult. Who knows, though, maybe you get lucky and get paired against a Romulan opponent, and then you can use the same Espionage card you would have with Chief O'Brien.
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#600453
Not_always_but_often wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:49 pm Two ideas for not using Temporal Micro Wormhole, one of which is much better than the other:

1) use Gegis to be able mix a [Holo] personnel of another affliation into your [1E-Fer] away team. Could use Chief O'Brien and Plans of the Tal Shiar to download the Espionage on demand. He's even download able via Defend Homeworld so you can get him when you're ready, making it possibly more reliable than TMW, in some respects (though probably not overall).
But, Plans requires Tal Shiar, and Chief doesn't have Tal Shiar?
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#600456
winterflames wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:25 am
Not_always_but_often wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:49 pm Two ideas for not using Temporal Micro Wormhole, one of which is much better than the other:

1) use Gegis to be able mix a [Holo] personnel of another affliation into your [1E-Fer] away team. Could use Chief O'Brien and Plans of the Tal Shiar to download the Espionage on demand. He's even download able via Defend Homeworld so you can get him when you're ready, making it possibly more reliable than TMW, in some respects (though probably not overall).
But, Plans requires Tal Shiar, and Chief doesn't have Tal Shiar?
The last sentence doesn't require anything. It just lets you go fetch an Espionage card.
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By winterflames (Derek Marlar)
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
#600463
Wait, are you saying I should read the whole card before shooting down people's ideas? That... That sounds too much like common sense!

Sorry, I should have reread the whole card, not just the plays for free part.
 
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#600493
I actually spent a while looking for a holographic Tal Shiar personnel before finally re-reading Plans more closely by myself.

In theory, a third way to pull this off would be to use Holoprogram: 221B Baker Street in order to give a Admiral Mendak [Holo], and then you could use his special download to get the needed espionage card, but that would require drawing two Admiral Mendaks to make work (one for the Holoprogram, and one to actually play), plus Gegis, so it would be tough to set up.

winterflames wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:35 am Wait, are you saying I should read the whole card before shooting down people's ideas? That... That sounds too much like common sense!

Sorry, I should have reread the whole card, not just the plays for free part.
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By stressedoutatumc (stressedoutatumc)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#600963
Not_always_but_often wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:49 pm Two ideas for not using Temporal Micro Wormhole, one of which is much better than the other:

1) use Gegis to be able mix a [Holo] personnel of another affliation into your [1E-Fer] away team. Could use Chief O'Brien and Plans of the Tal Shiar to download the Espionage on demand. He's even download able via Defend Homeworld so you can get him when you're ready, making it possibly more reliable than TMW, in some respects (though probably not overall).

He also has a special skill to download Brainwash, which brings me to my second idea....

2) Capture an opposing personnel, Brainwash them, and use the appropriate Espionage card to attempt the mission. Ideally, you capture specifically Selok, so you don't need the espionage card, but that might be rather difficult. Who knows, though, maybe you get lucky and get paired against a Romulan opponent, and then you can use the same Espionage card you would have with Chief O'Brien.
I may be mis-remembering, but wasn’t there a ruling that Espionage cards do not let you complete the mission, but rather just attempt them?
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By jadziadax8 (Maggie Geppert)
 - Executive Officer
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#600964
stressedoutatumc wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:22 am
Not_always_but_often wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:49 pm Two ideas for not using Temporal Micro Wormhole, one of which is much better than the other:

1) use Gegis to be able mix a [Holo] personnel of another affliation into your [1E-Fer] away team. Could use Chief O'Brien and Plans of the Tal Shiar to download the Espionage on demand. He's even download able via Defend Homeworld so you can get him when you're ready, making it possibly more reliable than TMW, in some respects (though probably not overall).

He also has a special skill to download Brainwash, which brings me to my second idea....

2) Capture an opposing personnel, Brainwash them, and use the appropriate Espionage card to attempt the mission. Ideally, you capture specifically Selok, so you don't need the espionage card, but that might be rather difficult. Who knows, though, maybe you get lucky and get paired against a Romulan opponent, and then you can use the same Espionage card you would have with Chief O'Brien.
I may be mis-remembering, but wasn’t there a ruling that Espionage cards do not let you complete the mission, but rather just attempt them?
I think that ruling was Espionage allow you to attempt your opponent's missions, but do not allow you to override the Modern restriction on completing opponent's missions that are not stealable.

However, since Espionage Mission is stealable, you should be able to do that?
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By Armus (Brian Sykes)
 - The Center of the Galaxy
 -  
Regent
Community Contributor
#600965
jadziadax8 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:39 am
stressedoutatumc wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:22 am
Not_always_but_often wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:49 pm Two ideas for not using Temporal Micro Wormhole, one of which is much better than the other:

1) use Gegis to be able mix a [Holo] personnel of another affliation into your [1E-Fer] away team. Could use Chief O'Brien and Plans of the Tal Shiar to download the Espionage on demand. He's even download able via Defend Homeworld so you can get him when you're ready, making it possibly more reliable than TMW, in some respects (though probably not overall).

He also has a special skill to download Brainwash, which brings me to my second idea....

2) Capture an opposing personnel, Brainwash them, and use the appropriate Espionage card to attempt the mission. Ideally, you capture specifically Selok, so you don't need the espionage card, but that might be rather difficult. Who knows, though, maybe you get lucky and get paired against a Romulan opponent, and then you can use the same Espionage card you would have with Chief O'Brien.
I may be mis-remembering, but wasn’t there a ruling that Espionage cards do not let you complete the mission, but rather just attempt them?
I think that ruling was Espionage allow you to attempt your opponent's missions, but do not allow you to override the Modern restriction on completing opponent's missions that are not stealable.

However, since Espionage Mission is stealable, you should be able to do that?
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