[Lobo]

FWIW, I'd be happy to play that game with you. PM me if interested. I'm hard to schedule with, but, once we find a time, we'll have a lovely night of it.

I don't bring my scary decks to novice games.

-Thanks for the offer, to you and the other brave poster.

I have a weekend coming up, the 24th i think, when i might have some time during the day. Will let ya know!

[Dunnagh]

Why are we so shocked that people show up for events with "Championship" in the name and play competitively? (Do people show up for Scrabble Worlds and complain that folks use too weird of words? )

Not shocked really. But we have little other tournaments here. In Germany there will be 4 tournaments, one is the German National, one is the ECC and then 2 more, one of which I attended (the other is a 7 hour drive away. Will do that for the ECC but cant (or wont) really for a regular weekend)

If the "big" tournaments are un-fun, then what else is left?

[sekce31]

Why are we so shocked that people show up for events with "Championship" in the name and play competitively?

Sounds like a false dilemma. Game can be competetive and yet fun. Fun does not mean holding hands and singing songs. But you can be competetive and still keep certain level of sportsmanship (i.e. you want to win, but to win within the intentions of designers and not by loopholes, rules lawyering and general obnoxiousness). No one is asking to not make game less tough.

[boromirofborg]

Sounds like a false dilemma. Game can be competetive and yet fun. Fun does not mean holding hands and singing songs. But you can be competetive and still keep certain level of sportsmanship (i.e. you want to win, but to win within the intentions of designers and not by loopholes, rules lawyering and general obnoxiousness). No one is asking to not make game less tough.

This comes back to the classic player psychographics(1), I think. I'm more of a Johnny than a Spike. I think most of us are. But I think it's important that some events, the big ones, are Spike-oriented and Spike-friendly.

Where I think the CC / the community has done less well is that because we have few events, they tend to be more Spike events, and that sends the wrong message to people that all events are Spike-events, and that creates a negative loop.








(1) the player psychographics were talked about by Mark Rosewater (head of Magic R&D) a couple decades ago. (note: apparently 2002. I feel the Olds now) Most players fall in to 1 or more buckets:

TIMMY: Timmly like to win by doing big, over the top things. In Magic, that's by playing with huge dinosaurs. In 1E, I'd say that playing with 50 point missions, pulling off crazy timeline disruptions, etc.

JOHNNY - I'll direct quote here:

Johnny is the creative gamer to whom Magic is a form of self-expression. Johnny likes to win, but he wants to win with style. It’s very important to Johnny that he win on his own terms. As such, it’s important to Johnny that he’s using his own deck. Playing Magic is an opportunity for Johnny to show off his creativity.

Johnny likes a challenge. Johnny enjoys winning with cards that no one else wants to use. He likes making decks that win in innovative ways. What sets Johnny apart from the other profiles is that Johnny enjoys deckbuilding as much as (or more than) he enjoys playing. Johnny loves the cool interactions of the cards. He loves combo decks. Johnny is happiest when he’s exploring uncharted territory.

Like Timmy, Johnny cares more about the quality of his wins than the quantity. For example, let's say Johnny builds a new deck that has a neat but difficult way to win. He plays ten games and manages to get his deck to do its thing… once. Johnny walks away happy.

That, I think actually defines more 1E players than not.


SPIKE:

Spike cares about winning. Spike doesn't have a favorite deck as much as Spike will play whatever deck is the best. Spike would rather win with a "boring" deck then lose with an "interesting" deck.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/makin ... -and-spike
Timmy

[AllenGould]

If the "big" tournaments are un-fun, then what else is left?

Leagues, to pick the obvious.

Players follow the incentives given. If we want to see more casual play (and less focus on winning), then we need to move some incentives around.

Championships and Elo will always have a place (not least of which is that there are players for whom that *is* what scratches the itch, and I ain't about to yuck their yum). But it seems weird that we look at folks who don't show up for tournaments, and don't at least consider that we may need to add some non-tournament options?

[sekce31]

That, I think actually defines more 1E players than not.

See. And if most 1E players are Jimmy (or Timmy), and most if not all events are for Spikes, well... you have a problem on your hands. On the other hand, after reading all the descriptions, I would consider myself at least spike hybrid and still the way it tournaments happen feels un-fun and not tempting, so...

[boromirofborg]

See. And if most 1E players are Jimmy (or Timmy), and most if not all events are for Spikes, well... you have a problem on your hands. On the other hand, after reading all the descriptions, I would consider myself at least spike hybrid and still the way it tournaments happen feels un-fun and not tempting, so...

I think most events *are* for Timmy/Johnny, however those aren't the ones that we talk about here on the site that provoke discussions.

For example last month we ran a local tournament (1E) and we chose to have all DQ missions. It was a casual, fun event with 4 of us playing and having fun games.

It also didn't reveal anything that broke the game so I didn't post about it and it didn't turn into a large discussion.

(also, to be clear about the psychographics, almost everyone is a mix to some extent. It's not a hard line of people are this not not that.)


I think a lot of the issues come down to marketing (as a broad term) because we discuss the failures but rarely the successes.

That's part of why I started by game battle log series, because I wanted to have fun discussions about "normal" games, not just the high profile ones.

[Dunnagh]

If the "big" tournaments are un-fun, then what else is left?

Leagues, to pick the obvious.

Players follow the incentives given. If we want to see more casual play (and less focus on winning), then we need to move some incentives around.

Championships and Elo will always have a place (not least of which is that there are players for whom that *is* what scratches the itch, and I ain't about to yuck their yum). But it seems weird that we look at folks who don't show up for tournaments, and don't at least consider that we may need to add some non-tournament options?

Most players I know will likely drive ~2 hours to (and back from) a tournament. We will drive 7 to today and probably 8 back on sunday to the ECC. We´re talking about ~350€ of hotel and gas here. Plus the time in the car thats quite demanding, too.

There´s a playing group in Cologne (~1 hour away) that manages to meet about once a year. The most games I´ve played this year were with my gf: 13 plays of kitchen table STCCG. There´s just no league because there´s an absolute lack of players.

I do have a board-game related yt channel with 6600 subs. I did a "why I love stccg" video once and in my casual talk videos there´s a mention of it oftentimes. I got messages from people who have cards in their attic but for whom the rules are too much to learn again.

And they are hard to learn. My gf started a year ago, I built her 2 decks and she still has a lot of rules mistakes (like thinking the crew of a ship is stopped if its away team is. Or thinking you can beam a stopped away team). she never played with artifacts, battle bridges, tribbles, time locations, visit cochrane memorials or assimilation. And thats not because she´s slow with rules: We usually play the most complex board games of them all (Trickerion, Dominations, games by Vital Lacerda). ST 1e just has a LOT of rules and interactions.

So what we need more, to grow, would be MORE and especially more visible printable Starter decks on the front page.

When I look at the starter page, theres a lot of 1e left, 2e right (confusing already to gamers who didnt even play 2e), a TON of expansion icons etc.

What would be cool would be a big:
COMING BACK TO THE GAME? CLICK THIS FOR AN EASY RETURN"

[eberlems]

Something like this?

[Dunnagh]

Indeed I never noticed that. My eyes scrolled over it as I was thinking it probably read something like "Here´s the news feed below"

Still, the page it leads to is quite technical. I Imagine more like 2 (3) buttons: 1E, 2E and I dont care (maybe), leading to a very comprehensive 1E list with a bunch of directly printable starters. Maybe a small strategy guide to these starters.

[BCSWowbagger]

I have often expressed this opinion before, but I think our homepage has vastly too much information on it, which makes it difficult to find things -- even fairly obvious things like that giant button. It's just overwhelming.

IMHO, the homepage should be the image, current news, the New Or Returning Player button, and then links to sub-homepages for 1E, 2E, and Tribbles. Championship plaques should not be on the homepage. Card of the Day and Card Lists should not be on the CC homepage. (All these things belong on the sub-homepage for each game.) Scattering the Tribbles champions INTO the news feed is quite funny but ludicrous.

But moving all that would be both a major effort by the various departments and a major who-moved-my-cheese moment for active players, who hate when the CC makes them do an extra click to find, like, the score cards... so it's hard to see how it would ever happen. Huge coordinated cross-department efforts that aren't card-related AND which stir up community resistance are almost impossible to carry out.

[Takket]

Indeed I never noticed that. My eyes scrolled over it as I was thinking it probably read something like "Here´s the news feed below"

Still, the page it leads to is quite technical. I Imagine more like 2 (3) buttons: 1E, 2E and I dont care (maybe), leading to a very comprehensive 1E list with a bunch of directly printable starters. Maybe a small strategy guide to these starters.

i said the exact same thing a few years ago lol like you i never noticed the button. it just seems to blend in to the page

[Enabran]

never noticed it too...

[PantsOfTheTalShiar]

Aggro Borg might not be broken, but they still could be in an unhealthy state.

I don't like how there seems to be a social norm that you shouldn't play Aggro Borg (or other aggressive decks) at local tournaments. First, that's a clue that it's overpowered or warps the game; and second, it makes it likely that Aggro Borg will perform well at high-level tournaments, because other players don't get any practice against it. (Personally, I love that James has been playing Kazon at recent locals.)

It's also not a good sign that almost all discussions about countermeasures revolve around one card: Strategema. Since Borg are more reliant on personnel combat now, is Transport Inhibitor more effective against them? Are there decks that can beat Borg at personnel combat?

For a healthy metagame, there needs to be more than one way to beat Aggro Borg.

[Lobo]

... Are there decks that can beat Borg at personnel combat?

For a healthy metagame, there needs to be more than one way to beat Aggro Borg.

-Bluegill Klingons or Romulans maybe? Nor decks with Equipment hoards?

But that's all-in for personnel combat, less optimized for ship battles.