By Klauser
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#629595
I was reviewing a couple of decklists today and while reviewing the skill matrix at the bottom of the decklist I saw that "Resistance" is NOT listed as an "Intelligence" skill!

I came into the game in the early Decipher era, and could have sworn there was a ruling that Bajoran's Resistance counted as a Intelligence skill. I reviewed all the Decipher- era glossaries and CRDs I've got backed up, but not a mention anywhere.

So to any Decipher-era types out there, I'd appreciate your recollections on this question.
 
By Winner of Borg (Stefan Slaby)
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
Continuing Committee Member - Retired
1E European Continental Champion 2024
2E European Continental Runner-Up 2024
1E Austrian National Champion 2023
2E Austrian National Champion 2022
1E Borg Region Regional Champion 2024
#629606
not as far as i remember.

there was quite a bit of decipher-era overlap in functionality:
- Bajoran Civil War allows bajorans with resistance to attack their own affiliation (the same way HQ: Defensive Measures does for intelligence skills).
- Holding Cell Door and Security Holding Cell both work with resistance in addition to some forms of intelligence
- Bajoran Resistance Cell works with bajoran espionage cards and resistance personnel (where other affiliations' espionage-related cards usually work with some form of intelligence)

but generic "intelligence" and "any intelligence" are concepts from the 2E era, and the conversion rules never had any overlap between resistance and intelligence.
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 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
1E The Neutral Zone Regional Participant 2024
#629614
Schlender-Steve. Niemand schlendert so hübsch durch die Gegend. Ich bin ein Experte, was psychische Erkrankungen betrifft. Aber Jules mag dich. Auch wenn du mal vertrottelt mal ebend nicht weißt, was zu tun ist in deinem Asperger. Und ich werde auftauchen. Nächste WM bei Kaiser. Joe and I are somehow twins. I want peace. You stole modern Hexany from me and perfected it. But I am not mad. I like you, Jules and even Veri. I miss Austria. Nonetheless all the best to you! Steve! Admiral Boimler. Bradworth Boimler. Alleine der Name hat schon Oscar verdient :) . Du und Richard Senior haben Angebote gemacht. Da war ich schon kaputt.


MOD EDIT (nobthehobbit, 2024-10-06): Post hidden for CoC-infringing content.
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
  Trek Masters  Participant 2024
#629623
Klauser wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2024 4:03 am I was reviewing a couple of decklists today and while reviewing the skill matrix at the bottom of the decklist I saw that "Resistance" is NOT listed as an "Intelligence" skill!

I came into the game in the early Decipher era, and could have sworn there was a ruling that Bajoran's Resistance counted as a Intelligence skill. I reviewed all the Decipher- era glossaries and CRDs I've got backed up, but not a mention anywhere.

So to any Decipher-era types out there, I'd appreciate your recollections on this question.
Funny you mention that because I noticed the same thing a few months ago, and also thought Resistance was an intelligence skill. The DS9 rules supplement makes no mention of what "intelligence" is but only says this:
Tal Shiar – This skill no longer includes the built-in function of allowing Romulans to attack Romulans. Instead, this function is now provided (in an
enhanced form) by the objective card HQ: Defensive Measures.
So I'm not sure where or when intelligence was actually defined, or if Resistance was ever counted as "intelligence".
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First Edition Rules Master
By BCSWowbagger (James Heaney)
 - First Edition Rules Master
 -  
Community Contributor
1E North American Continental Semi-Finalist 2024
#629629
Resistance has never been an Intelligence skill.

Because so many players (like you) share the intuition that Resistance should be an Intelligence skill, the Rules Committee has debated adding it to the list three times in the past sixteen years, but it's never quite reached consensus.

The arguments in favor seem obvious, so I won't recount them. Arguments against include that it would make some text on some cards redundant, that it would dilute affiliation flavor by giving another affiliation access to an intelligence skill, that it upset gameplay balance, and that Bajoran Resistance was never an advanced intelligence organization with galactic reach like the Tal Shiar or Section 31.

It has come up quite a few times in public as well. A sample:
2014: viewtopic.php?p=242319#p242319
2016: viewtopic.php?p=346183#p346183
2017: viewtopic.php?p=401720#p401720
Now that I look, that last link is actually also by you, Klauser!
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By Takket
 - Delta Quadrant
 -  
  Trek Masters  Participant 2024
#629630
I wonder... when were Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order declared "intelligence" skills? Obviously they must have been because how would anyone know how to use HQ: Defensive Measures if they weren't? Yet the DS9 rules supplement makes no mention of this at all. And Section 31 didn't show up until 2 years later in Second Anthology.
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By commdecker (Matthew Zinno)
 - Gamma Quadrant
 -  
Arbiter
Community Contributor
#629633
Winner of Borg wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:12 am generic "intelligence" and "any intelligence" are concepts from the 2E era, and the conversion rules never had any overlap between resistance and intelligence.
And that probably explains why Resistance didn't count as Intelligence in the first place -- 2E had (has) a Bajoran Resistance keyword that went on [Baj] personnel, and an Intelligence skill that went on other affiliations to mean Tal Shiar, Obsidian Order, etc. In the Backwards-Compatible rules, the Bajoran Resistance keyword got mapped to 1E's Resistance skill, and 2E's Intelligence skill got mapped to the affiliation-specific intelligence skills. The "Intelligence" / "any Intelligence" concept thus got applied to the 1E skills that came from the 2E skill, and Resistance was not one of those.
Takket wrote:I wonder... when were Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order declared "intelligence" skills? Obviously they must have been because how would anyone know how to use HQ: Defensive Measures if they weren't? Yet the DS9 rules supplement makes no mention of this at all.
Well, those players were using the original printing of the card. It's only the 2012 errata version which mentions "Intelligence".
 
By Klauser
 - Beta Quadrant
 -  
#629641
BCSWowbagger wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2024 3:20 pm Resistance has never been an Intelligence skill.
.....
2014: viewtopic.php?p=242319#p242319
2016: viewtopic.php?p=346183#p346183
2017: viewtopic.php?p=401720#p401720
Now that I look, that last link is actually also by you, Klauser!
Oh wow ... that is funny!!! My 65+ year old brain has NO recollection of that conversation. Granted, that was from 2017.

Thanks to all for your input, and I look forward to asking the same question again in 2031 !!!

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